hospital* quarantine, because all seven of her children have pertussis, which is better known as “whooping cough.” While her older ones are getting better, her younger ones are still struggling. What is so important that she thought she should write the article now? Because she wants people to know that had she vaccinated her children, she most likely wouldn’t be where she is right now. She had been convinced that vaccines pose too much risk and too little benefit, but now she understands how wrong such a notion is. She hopes to help others learn from her mistake.
Ironically, she had already been convinced that the anti-vaccine movement was wrong before her kids ended up in the hospital. In fact, she and her family doctor had worked out a catch-up vaccination schedule for all her kids, but before they could start it, pertussis raged through her household. Here’s how she expresses it:
…the irony isn’t lost on me that I’m writing this from quarantine. For six years we were frozen in fear from vaccines, and now we are frozen because of the disease.
She expects some backlash from the anti-vaccine community, and some gloating from the pro-vaccine community. However, I applaud her for making her story known. I hope others will read it and benefit from it. As she says:
Right now my family is living the consequences of misinformation and fear. I understand that families in our community may be mad at us for putting their kids at risk. I want them to know that we tried our best to protect our kids when we were afraid of vaccination and we are doing our best now, for everyone’s sake, by getting them up to date. We can’t take it back…but we can learn from this and help others the same way we have been helped.
This mother isn’t the first to experience tragedy because of misinformation about vaccines. A mother named Tammy contacted me several years ago and said:
Thank you for your vaccine stance and research! I am a mother who had heard some “horror stories” and was wary of vaccines. As a result, my 3 year-old daughter (now 7) went deaf in one ear due to complications of chickenpox. I have since immunized my younger son (& dear daughter has been immunized against all other known diseases for which vaccines were appropriate).
Two other mothers have written me with similar stories (here and here).
Now please don’t misunderstand what I am saying. I am not saying that children should be vaccinated because of the experiences of these four mothers. I am saying that children should be vaccinated because the science is very clear: vaccines are both safe and effective for the vast majority of people. Anecdotes like these simply illustrate the importance of making the correct decision.
Please see Jo’s comment below. They may not be in hospital quarantine, even though the article makes it sound that way.
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Thank you for being a voice of reason in this community. I tell you what though, it’s hard to be a VAX-er in the home school community. So many do NOT…and it makes me sad. We tout ourselves as the “educated ones”… yet fall for all the scare tactics and propaganda. 🙁
My only complaint with vaccines is they push so many in a single visit. The doctor we have now works with us so my children receive a single shot. We come back to the office in 30 day spans to get all that is recommended. Twice before my daughter developed a high fever lasting 36-72 hours when she received multiple vaccinations in single visit.
Kristin Ludwig, a good reason to combine many vaccines in one is to minimize the number of needles your child has to suffer. It should not overload the child’s immune system. Every day it must fight several thousand ‘new’ antigens every day
from the environment. This is far larger than all the vaccinations in the entire vaccination
schedule (about 150).
We are not completely anti-vax but picked and chose what to vaccinate for and when.
One of our children was severely damaged from the MMR shot. Say what you will about the “science” behind it but he went from perfectly healthy to not able to speak in a few days.
There is not a one size fits all for this and to suggest that the CDC and all research is not unduly influenced by pharmaceutical companies is wrong. Almost every study has authors that are highly compensated by pharmaceutical companies and many of the CDC officials used to work for Merck and other vaccination corporations.
Sorry, Deanna, but that’s just not true. The original clinical trials are definitely influenced by the pharmaceutical companies, because it only makes sense for them to fund the studies. However, the follow-up studies are populated by scientists who have a vested interest in finding a problem with the medicine, as this article demonstrates.
I do agree that there isn’t a single size that fits all when it comes to any medicine, including vaccines. That’s why I constantly say, “Please consult a board-certified medical doctor before making any medical decisions for yourself or your family.”
The “cocktail” vax as they r called do not have to be done all at once. I am a mother of 3 and until my third i had no idea that I could break them down one at a time! I know. But i did it this time around. Thankfully my other 2 never expirienced any side effects aside from the norm like slight fever and redness at the inj site. And unless I really felt like it was super painful didn’t give them any meds. My 3rd never expirienced anything at all. My kids r 3, 2 and 8months and thank God healthy. And the vaccines and a pediatrician. That doesn’t [BLEEP] me and informs me and answers my millions of questions… 🙂
I listened to one of your vaccine talks years ago. At the same time, we were considering adopting from a foreign country. We knew that the child we adopted could bring back all sorts of possible diseases that are not prevalent here so we started slowly vaccinating. The thing that pushed me to the vaccinating side was realizing that if I didn’t, and my kids got a preventable disease, I would expect the medical establishment to help me. For something I could have stopped. So, that made the decision easier. We vaccinated slowly and one shot at a time. My kids had no side effects.
I highly doubt a hospital quarantine for this “affected” family. Ten of us in our family had pertussis two years ago. We contracted it through a recently vaccinated 4-month-old who then came down with a dreadful case of pertussis that did land him in the hospital. He shared it with my 3-month-old grandson, who also got very sick, but, with my daughter’s persistence in caring for him, he got better over a period of two months. He also shared the disease with his 1-year-old brother. Then my six daughters (their mom and 5 aunts aged 2, 8, 10, 12, and 13), my fully vaxxed and boosted husband, and me (vaxxed, not boosted for 15 years) also all got pertussis. This was not something that would have called for a quarantine. Pertussis is serious among very young (under 4 months) and very weak because the cough reflex isn’t sufficient to expectorate the mucous from the airways. But the vaccination isn’t recommended until age 4 months. By the time a child is six months, the cough reflex is strong enough that pertussis is just a horrible cough. For us, it disrupted sleep because the cough is worse lying down. Other than that, we went through it and continued life as usual.
Every time I read one of these “I used to be anti-vax until” articles, so many things simply so not ring true. The affect of the vaccination is too often deadly or devastating. Do honest research, people. Hopefully, your child won’t be one in 30,000 or one in less than 100 that will suffer chronic effects for life in order to try in vain to protect the proverbial herd.
In 2014, I personally learned of 12 deaths from vaccinations in a single year (and had some form of contact with their parents) … in my teensy sphere of influence. IF my sphere of influence comprised 10% of the US population (which it doesn’t come close to doing), that would equate to one in 30,000 deaths from vaccinations. In just my sphere, it is 1 in 300,000 of the 4 million infants born in the US in 2014 were healthy at their well baby visits and dead hours, days, or less than two weeks later. You can say correlation doesn’t amount to causation, but when can you stop ignoring the overwhelming evidence that suggests that, in this case, vaccinations are the only common factor among these deceased? Healthy babies don’t just drop dead. Your child. Your choice. But … for the sake of your child, please dig deeper.
Actually, DebiQ, quarantine is very common in pertussis cases. Indeed, one of the two mothers whose stories I linked also mentioned being in quarantine for 5 days, as recommended in the Family Practice Notebook.
You might be skeptical of such stories, but I am not. I get them regularly from people who have been fooled by the anti-vaccine propaganda. Once they see the real science behind vaccines, many people understand they shouldn’t be afraid. Of course, as is the case with the four mothers mentioned in this post, it sometimes takes harm to their children to bring this into focus.
You are too quick to dismiss the scientific fact that correlation doesn’t mean causation. This is very important and cannot be overemphasized when it comes to understanding medical issues. For example, some people claimed that since SIDS was correlated with the pertussis vaccine, the vaccine must be at least partly responsible for SIDS. As a result, some countries even stopped pertussis vaccination for a while. Fortunately, studies were done that show that the vaccine actually protects against SIDS. The countries that stopped vaccination because of the correlation, then, ended up putting more children at risk.
An event occurring before a medical issue doesn’t tell us that the event caused the medical issue. For example, my brother-in-law works for a business that has semi-regular banquets. The day after one of those banquets, all the attendees were sick. Of course, the owner of the business thought that it was caused by the food at the banquet, so he called the caterer. The caterer was adamant that there was no food poisoning. The owner wanted to get to the bottom of this, so he sent some of his people to the doctor, who did blood tests. It turns out that the caterer was right. They all had the same virus. It was a virus that takes several weeks to incubate. They eventually figured out that all of them got it from a banquet six weeks earlier, where a visitor had spoken. He had the virus and gave it to the attendees then, and it took weeks for them to show symptoms. By sheer coincidence, the symptoms showed up the day after another banquet.
This is why one must do studies to assess whether or not an event causes an illness, and the studies show both the safety and efficacy of vaccines. I do agree that parents need to dig deeper. If they do, they will learn the science behind vaccines and will understand their safety and efficacy.
Thanks for sharing this.
Everything we do comes with a certain risk. We are far more likely to die in our cars than on airplanes, but there are people terrified of the later while doing the former everyday.
In my teens I knew a little boy who became deaf because of vaccines. That didn’t stop us from immunizing our family. I’ve read too much of the devastation communicable diseases have wreaked in the past to think I’d be safer without them.
God bless!
I doubt that this boy became deaf because of vaccines. More likely post hoc ergo propter hoc. But good on you for vaccinating your family.
Thank you Dr Wile for setting Deanna straight. One of the problems I have is finding the follow-up studies. Would you list a few links to those and let me/us know which vaccination they were for. Also any studies done with multiple vaccinations. Do you give your patients a copy of the vaccine inserts? Do you do blood tests before and after vaccines. Have any of your patients ever reported an adverse event?
The world needs more Dr’s that pay attention to the scientific follow up tests as you do. Thanks in advance for your help.
I think you misunderstand, Maggie. I am not a medical doctor. I am a nuclear chemist and textbook author. I write about all sorts of science issues, including vaccinations. The link I give in the post is filled with follow-up studies. Indeed, there is even a discussion of follow-up studies that include several vaccines.
I know this family personally and they are NOT under hospital quarantine. Please be informed BEFORE you write something like this.
Thanks for letting me know this, Jo. Are they under a self-imposed quarantine? The mother said she went to the hospital and is now in quarantine. That made it sound like she is in hospital quarantine.
Jo, can I ask that you pass on the information to the family about the Vitmin C protocol that Dr Suzanne Humphries has outlined? Our family of 9 went through Whooping Cough last year, some of us quite severely. After 5 weeks, with a downhill trend our only progress, and no real help from any conventional medical advice, we tried the Vit C protocol, and I was stunned by the swift turnaround. Within 48 hrs all symptoms were dramatically improved, and a week later we were a transformed family. We also helped another family with 5 small children who all had the Whooping Cough just after us (2 of whom were throwing up after every cough, like one of ours had been), to get started with the protocol too, and for them as well, the transformation within a 48 hr period was amazing. It’s absolutely worth trying! Much suffering and distress may well be diminished or resolved.
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/09/07/vitamin-c-for-whooping-cough-updated-edition-suzanne-humphries-md/
She said she took her youngest to the hospital to confirm pertusis. They are under self-imposed quarantine.
Thanks for letting me know. I have corrected that part of the post.
Thanks for correcting it.
Dr. Wile, sometimes the autopsy reveals correlation (Zane Carter’s and Angel Frady’s autopsies both revealed their recent deaths, in the summer and autumn of 2014 respectively, as being caused by the Prevnar vaccination), but doctor’s, such as yourself, still deny it.
In our case, the vaccinated child and his mother were the only people my daughter had been around. It was winter, and her car was broken, and she had a newborn, so she couldn’t go out. But she babysat this little boy every weekday. When he was vaccinated, he was very miserable for a few days and then improved. Then he started coughing. My daughter was the first to suggest whooping cough because of the characteristic whoop. The mother said it couldn’t be because he’d been vaccinated. Then it persisted, and the mother took the baby to the pediatrician, who denied the possibility and said it was bronchitis. Eventually, they tested for whooping cough when the child was hospitalized. In the mean time, my 3mo grandson also started coughing. My daughter tried to get the pediatrician to test for whooping cough. (The older infant had not yet been diagnosed with anything beyond bronchitis.) They also told her that it was bronchitis, noting that it didn’t have the characteristic “whoop”. This persisted for many weeks. My daughter told the pediatrician that she and her older son and her sisters and parents were now also affected, and informed them that bronchitis didn’t work that way. He was finally tested for whooping cough. It came back positive. (She called the other mother to inform her, but the other mother had already received the diagnosis and was afraid my daughter would be mad that her son gave my daughter’s kids whooping cough.)
Now … you will likely say that the correlation of the vaccinated child’s vaccination and subsequent infection and my family’s infection didn’t necessarily mean causation, but that demonstrates only an unwillingness to see the flaws in the product you sell.
Honest physicians that refuse to support an agenda look at the facts and understand that vaccinations are not safe or effective for MOST of their patients and definitely shouldn’t be administered in a one-size-fits-all manner … ESPECIALLY a child who is already sick with a fever or ear infection.
Correlation doesn’t necessarily MEAN causation, but … it often leads an honest, scientific mind to find causation. But … you have to make a living. I understand.
I have 8 healthy kids who have overcome any illness they experienced with ease. We don’t vaccinate, and we don’t use the services of a physician unless we need stitches, have a broken bone, or something that can’t be handled easily by an intact immune system. I understand that you don’t feel that anything would be different had they spent their lives being fully vaccinated and pumped full of antibiotics with the hint of a fever. I’m sure that you believe that the 35,000 patients of Homefirst pediatrics that aren’t vaccinated and don’t have the volumes of chronic diseases or autism that other practices experience is merely based on luck, as opposed to the absence of vaccinations to correlate with the results. When Autism was at a rate of 1 in 170 kids, Homefirst’s autism rate among unvaccinated was non existent. (I don’t have recent statistics.)
But … I’m not talking autism. I’m talking bypassing the well designed immune system with vaccinations that, by their very nature, will do harm, which is why, in 1986, your community became immune from lawsuits from vaccine damaged individuals and why, like cigarettes, vaccinations include in their cost a tax that is used to pay the billions of dollars that has been paid out to vaccine damaged individuals that managed to make it through the crippling burden of a complex legal process.
Becoming a physician is not easy, but please, Dr. Wile, look beyond the rhetoric. Care enough to see that vaccinations are an agenda that will result in a damaged society. Measles … pertussis … mumps … chicken pox … rubella … these are all diseases I’ve experienced in spite of being fully vaccinated (except for chicken pox which was just something all kids dealt with when I was a kid). I came out on the other end of them healthy and finally immune, something vaccinations can’t offer anyone.
I don’t deny science. Science is spectacular. The science of the immune system is awesome and mind boggling and beautiful. I just keep looking at the science beyond the agenda. Peace.
There is such a thing as the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). But they make the following very clear:
Furthermore, with over 10 million vaccines given to infants each year in the USA, even those dubious reports are a tiny fraction of all vaccine recipients. However, in this fallen world, there are plenty of cases of genuine harm caused by vaccine-preventable diseases.
For more, see:
Vaccine Injury Stories
Vaccine Injury Stories: the Sacred Cows of the Internet?
Dr. Wile, I just learned that you are NOT a pediatrician or a medical doctor … and that you are a believer in intelligent design of the universe by our Creator. I’m kind of shocked when I see someone who believes in I AM as creator and designer, but feels that He “forgot” to design a competent immune system. Nevertheless … I’m interested in seeing what you say in your textbooks. I have a hard time finding creation textbooks that aren’t dismissive of science and reason, which I feel do not in anyway compete with the concept of a Genesis 1 creation and 6000 years of human history! We are in the final days of human history as we know it. I feel vaccinations are part of the end.
DebiQ, I am sorry, but correlation simply doesn’t mean causation. Once again, to see causation, studies need to be done where you can compare subjects to controls. When such studies are done, we see that vaccines are not related to the kinds of things you are claiming. This isn’t rhetoric. It is simply science. I encourage you to study the articles in the link I gave in the original post. You will find that science strongly supports the safety and efficacy of vaccines.
You shouldn’t be surprised that I believe in a creator and accept the science regarding vaccines. The same science that leads me to believe in a Creator is the science that demonstrates how good vaccines are. Also, as a Christian, I understand that God’s creation is no longer ideal. It has been corrupted by the Fall. It’s not that God “forgot” to design a competent immune system. It’s that the Fall has corrupted the immune system, which is why we need all manner of medicines, including vaccines.
There are certain vaccines that have high levels of mercury that are too high a dose for infants, and also studies show that vaccines are linked to autism. I wouldn’t trust vaccines. I do believe that the invention of vaccines was a very useful and great invention but only before mercury (and who knows what other things they put in there)was added. Well that’s just my opinion, but I’d say that the best thing is to ask God for wisdom and guidance.
Millie, there is simply no link between vaccines and autism. Studies demonstrate this quite conclusively. The mercury in vaccines is not too high for infants, and once again, studies conclusively demonstrate this. Not long ago, I debated a chemist who claimed that mercury in vaccines is related to autism. The debate went so poorly for the anti-vaccine side that they removed all mention of it from their website. However, if you are interested, you can watch the debate here.
Dr Wile, are you or is anyone you know in contact with, or able to get in contact with this mother? If so, *please* get the following information to her as quickly as possible. Our family, all nine of us, had whooping cough our past Australian winter, and our saving grace was using the High Vit C protocol as outlined by Dr Suzanne Humphries. I also then was able to support 2 other families in using it to help their littlies, and to significantly and swiftly reduce all distressing symptoms. After all we had been through following conventional medical advice alone, suffering on for weeks, *this* was a beautiful, and remarkable relief indeed. Not only for us, but for these other families as well. The mother (and others) can take or leave as they wish any information/ideas about vaccinations, but the treatment should not be dismissed.
God Bless, Marion
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/09/07/vitamin-c-for-whooping-cough-updated-edition-suzanne-humphries-md/
Dr. Wile, I was wondering what your position is on the multitude of shots that are given at one visit, as mentioned by Kristin Ludwig above. Are they done for convenience? Where can parents go to find out more information?
There were 17 years between my first child and my last, and the number of shots that were recommended for my last child far exceeded those given to my first. It is very concerning to me as my first grandchildren start arriving, and I would very much like to hear your opinion.
That’s a good question, SJ. The multiple shots are given because many parents will not take the time to keep coming back to the doctor. Most doctors are happy to give the shots more slowly over time if you are concerned about that. However, studies indicate that the multiple shots are not a problem.
Thanks for that reply, Dr. Wile. I was also wondering if you think all the vaccines that are currently offered are necessary, and if not, why not? I did not give my teenage girls the HPV vaccine, for instance, because it seemed like a lifestyle-based preventative, not something that protects against an infectious disease.
SJ, I would say that no vaccine is absolutely necessary. It is all about managing risks and benefits. You have to examine the risks and benefits for each child individually. Some children have conditions that might cause one or more vaccines to be risky. Those vaccines, of course, should be avoided. This is why it is so important to make this decision with the help of a board-certified physician who knows your family’s medical history.
On the other side, if a child isn’t at risk for a disease, you shouldn’t vaccinate at all. If you don’t leave the U.S., for example, there is no need to get the yellow fever vaccine. However, if you travel to countries where that’s a problem, you should get the vaccine, as I did when I traveled to such a country. When it comes to the HPV vaccine, then, you have to think about whether or not your teen is at risk. If she is not sexually active, she is not at risk, so she should not get the vaccine.
Dr. Wile,
I took an Anatomy and Physiology class in college a couple of years ago. When we went over the immune system, I remember my instructor saying she thought, “vaccinations should only be given for things that will kill you (e.g. polio, smallpox), but not for MMR or varicella. We should get these when we are young and our immune systems will be stronger for having to overcome them.” I had never heard this argument before and wondered what you thought about it? Is it reasonable or does evidence show that it is still better to build immunity through vaccines rather than the disease itself?
Also, I am now in nursing school and I had to have titers done to show that I was immune to MMR, varicella, and Hep B. I have received vaccines and boosters for all of these, however, I am not immune to varicella or Hep B. I have talked many people and looked this information up. I have been told (and from reading understand) that some people “just don’t react to the Hep B vaccine,” but no one has heard of not being immune to varicella. Have you ever heard of this or do you know how this could happen?
Thanks for putting out honest information about these types of issues.
Olivia, I don’t think that argument is very reasonable. First, measles can kill a person, and complications from chicken pox can as well. Now, of course, the chance of dying from measles or complications from chicken pox is small, but it is not zero. Second, children can survive things like measles and chicken pox and still have life-long afflictions as a result. Remember, the mother I quote above has a daughter who is deaf in one ear due to chicken pox. I think such risks make the vaccine a good choice for most children.
I have heard of a case of a healthcare worker who could not get a positive titer for varicella. A study done on her showed that she was immune despite the negative titer. You might want to show this to your superiors.
Thank you very much for the reply and the article–that was very interesting. I just recently studied (to a small extent) immune system diseases like rheumatoid arthritis and allergic reactions in one of my classes. I am constantly reminded of the effects of the Fall on our bodies and yet I also get to see how complex and truly incredible God has designed the human body to be!
One of my colleagues recently ministered in a church that was in mourning for a 3yo girl who died of influenza. I strongly recommend the annual flu shot for everyone unless they have a strong medical reason not to.
DebiQ I applaud you. I am a mom just like you. I learned the hard way that the medical community cannot be trusted and that we have never been able to give informed consent in this country because the medical community doesn’t even know all of the risks associated with vaccinations. How do people feel about the ingredients in vaccinations? If you saw an aborted fetus that had measles would you consider taking some of it’s lung tissue and inserting it into your child’s body? Probably not. Do the doctors tell you that is what is contained in the vaccination they are giving your child? No. Do they tell you that there is a Vaccination Compensation system that has paid out $3 billion dollars for confirmed vaccine injuries in the US? Do they tell you that the vaccine manufacturers are immune from all liability so that you can’t sue them if your child is injured from their vaccine? Do they tell you that the current schedule of vaccinations has NEVER been tested in combination? Do they tell you about the rise in cases of autism along with the fact that children are now given 69 doses of vaccinations compared to 29 doses back in 2000? Do the doctors tell you that they get a bonus from the pharma companies at the end of the year for the number of vaccinations they give? Do any of you know any of this as you sit here saying the unvaxers are irresponsible? Do you know what is in the vaccinations besides aborted fetal cells? Monkey, pig, bovine, guinea pig DNA, aluminum, dyes, formaldehyde, MSG, cleaners/solvents etc.? Instead of arguing, I realized no one was giving me that information – so I found it myself. We need to get sick to develop our immune system. There are 300 vaccinations currently in development and soon they will be vaxing for the common cold. And just know that you are injecting a live attenuated virus into your children. That process alone puts them in such danger. Measles, chicken pox, flu are all airborne and enter through the respiratory system. Once in your respiratory system, your body identifies those viruses and starts to arm the body letting your organs know to be on guard. A vaccination shocks the entire system by taking not only the love virus but all of the adjuvants/toxins and shoots them directly into your organs and blood. I just saw a case of a healthy 6 month old who died the night he got his MMR. There hasn’t been a measles death in over a decade. But many have died from the MMR. You be a guinea pig yourself until you stop allowing them to do so.
Madelyn, you seem to have some serious misconceptions about vaccines. Perhaps I can clear some of them up. You seem to think there is fetal tissue in vaccines. Of course, that is impossible. You think that doctors don’t tell you what is in vaccines. My doctor certainly did. She gave me the ingredients list, and as a chemist, I understand that none of those ingredients are unhealthy at the levels they are present. You seem to think that doctors don’t tell people about the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, but of course, that is wrong. The government, doctors, and many other organizations all make people aware of it. Of course, that’s why you can’t sue the vaccine makers. The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program replaces the lawsuit option.
You seem to think that the current schedule of vaccinations have never been tested in combination, but of course, they have. Indeed, those who follow the recommended vaccination schedule have been shown to be healthier than those who don’t. You also seem to think that autism is somehow related to vaccines, when we know it is not. You also seem to think that vaccines are hard on the immune system, when studies show the exact opposite. Vaccinated children have stronger immune systems than unvaccinated children.
Please also note that a death (or any other incident) occurring after a vaccine (or any other medicine) doesn’t indicate that the death was caused by the incident. Simple mathematics tell us that deaths and other incidents will be associated with vaccines or other medicines by coincidence alone. In order to determine whether or not a vaccine or other medicine caused a death or event, controlled studies must be done. Such controlled studies demonstrate both the efficacy and safety of vaccines.
As a fully immunized adult who still got whooping cough because my ‘age group” immunity had worn out, I am the poster child for immunizations. I have never been that sick in my life (and that is long). Yes there are side effects of immunizations but those risks are still smaller than getting the disease
You are behind the times. The MMR vax contains fetal tissue from an aborted fetus. That is established info that has been around forever. No doctors don’t give lists of ingredients with vaccinations. Vaccination ingredients are listed on the CDC website and you don’t know what amounts are in them based on that list. There is enough MSG – hydrolyzed protein – to cause seizures in people and that is why they tell you seizures are “normal responses” to vaccinations. The Vaccination compensation program is FUNDED BY TAXPAYERS and not the vax companies. In fact, they have record profits. I hope you will spend some time getting up to speed.
Thanks for your reply, Madelyn. I am sorry you are still confused about vaccines. Let me see if I can help. If you would actually read the article I linked about vaccines and fetal tissue, you would understand why it is impossible for fetal tissue to be in a vaccine. As the article explains:
“…if you are injected with anything containing tissue from another person, your body will immediately recognize it as an invader and begin attacking it. This immune response is often quite radical and can easily lead to death! This is why blood from a donor to a recipient must be carefully matched before the recipient can receive it. Thus, there is no human tissue of any kind in vaccines. Unfortunately, the anti-vaccination movement (and even some naive pro- life groups) will try to convince the uninformed that vaccines contain tissue from aborted babies and that abortions must be continually done to supply this tissue to the “evil” drug companies. This is, of course, a bald-faced lie. Unfortunately, this lie is particularly evil, in that it targets a person’s morally correct view that abortion is murder.”
If you read the article, you will see that while some specific vaccines are grown on self-perpetuating cells from two abortions that took place more than 40 years ago, fetal tissue is definitely not in any vaccine.
And yes, of course doctors give the list of ingredients of vaccines. As I wrote, my doctor did. In fact, doctors are required by law to give out Vaccine Information Statements, and those statements give you the web address where you can find the ingredients.
I am not sure what you think MSG is, but it is the sodium salt of one of the most common amino acids in nature. As you can see from the ingredients list, it exists in only four vaccines: the adenovirus vaccine, the flumist vaccine, the MMRV vaccine, and the shingles vaccine. In any event, seizures are not a “normal response” to vaccinations. Indeed, according to a study published just last year:
“Our results suggest that in most cases, genetic or structural defects are the underlying cause of epilepsy with onset after vaccination, including both cases with preexistent encephalopathy or benign epilepsy with good outcome.”
In other words, seizures are not a “normal response” to vaccines. Those who have seizures after vaccines have them because they already have a condition that produces them.
You might want to learn a bit about the drug companies that make vaccines, because they do not have “record profits.” Indeed, vaccines produce fewer profits than other medicines. As this analysis shows:
“So vaccines generate about US$10.5 billion in ‘net profits,’ or about 43.8% of revenue. Most non-vaccine pharmaceuticals would generate about US$11.1 billion in net profit, or 46.3%, from the same revenue – thus, vaccines produce around 5% less profits than do other pharmaceuticals.”
You are correct that the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program is funded by the taxpayers, but as I indicated, it replaces the lawsuit option.
I hope this has helped clear up your confusion.
No confusion here – I just don’t want people thinking you are the information center on this. You are spitting out what you want people to hear. Check out the CDC website where they admit that Vaccination Information Statements are NOT informed consent. And yes, seizures are coined as normal responses by the Compensation program and no damages can be collected for that injury. You are misrepresenting the fact that you are a doctor – if you have a phd in something that is great – but it certainly isn’t medicine. I am glad you think you are benefitting from vaccinations. I have seen the benefit from not vaccinating and have a vaccine injured child so I would never listen to your advice on vaccinations. But I am glad my posts are on here to maybe help one mom not be guilted into vaccinating. Best of luck.
I am sorry, Madelyn, but you do still seem confused. Once again, let me try to clear things up for you. As the link I gave you states:
“It’s Federal Law! You must give your patients current Vaccine Information Statements.”
Once again, those Vaccine Information Statements give the web address where you can see the ingredients. Thus, unlike you seem to think, doctors do give their patients information regarding the ingredients in vaccines.
Also, there is nowhere that seizures are called “normal responses” to vaccines. The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program doesn’t make any statements about normal reactions, as each case is reviewed individually. Indeed, the CDC says:
“Febrile seizures can occur when a child is sick with influenza virus infection or other childhood illnesses that may cause fever. Therefore, febrile seizures are commonly seen during cold and flu season in the United States. However, several studies of children in the United States have been conducted to see if there is an increased risk for febrile seizures following receipt of seasonal flu vaccines. One study evaluated more than 45,000 children aged 6 months through 23 months of age who received influenza vaccines from 1991 through 2003 and did not find an association with seizures. In addition, there was no indication that seasonal flu vaccines or the 2009 H1N1 flu vaccines used in the United States during the 2009-2010 flu season were associated with an increased risk of febrile seizures.”
So, they say that for the influenza vaccines, there is no association at all with seizures. Now, the document goes on to note that for a couple of specific vaccines, there is an association with seizures, but it is rare, not normal. Once again, as a very recent study shows, when seizures occur after a vaccine, it is generally not the vaccine’s fault.
You also seem to think I am making people believe I am a medical doctor. However, I am clearly not. Indeed, this is on every one of my main vaccines articles:
“PLEASE NOTE: Dr. Wile is not a medical doctor. He is a nuclear chemist. As a result, he does not dispense medical advice. He simply educates the public about scientific issues. Please consult a board-certified medical doctor before making any medical decisions for yourself or your family.”
In addition, anyone reading any article on my blog can also read this:
“You have stumbled across Dr. Jay L. Wile’s Blog. Dr. Wile holds an earned PhD from the University of Rochester in Nuclear Chemistry”
Thus, it is very clear that I am not trying to make people believe I am a medical doctor.
I do hope you learn the facts regarding vaccines. It doesn’t matter to me whether or not you vaccinate. I just want people to know the actual facts so they can make an informed decision.
My doctor gave me 1 or 2 pieces of paper with a brief list of side effects for 1 or 2 vaccines (older ones). I was told that there wasn’t any information on the newer vaccines and that their side effects were only redness at the injection site and slight fever. When I asked to see the package insert, I was told that they throw those out as soon as they come in. Doctors want you to blindly believe without doing your own research one way or the other.
It sounds like you need a different doctor, endogirl. First, any doctor who doesn’t give you a Vaccine Information Statement for every vaccine is breaking the law. Second, any doctor who wants you to follow advice blindly is definitely not a doctor I would ever see again.
Yes that is the part I want to highlight for people – you are a chemist with an opinion. That’s just fine. I am a lawyer and I think you are pushing the envelope with “Dr. Wile” and your misinformation on vaccinations. Please check the CDC website once again – VIS sheets are not informed consent as the CDC states. Unfortunately, you are one of the ones that is swayed in the wrong direction. You have no inside link to any information – all of the people commenting on this blog can get to the same information as you. You need to be very careful with this website as many have been confused by the title of “Doctor.” Many doctors are now even realizing the issues with vaccinations and spacing them out or only suggesting certain ones. And, the Catholic Church has addressed the fact that there is DNA from an aborted fetus in certain vaccinations. Clearly you haven’t stumbled across that in your hobby research. Let me try and help you understand this all – autism has increased in unbelievable proportions since we have increased the doses of vaccinations we give our children to 69 doses. There is no way to counter that. It’s just pharma desperately trying to hold on to their glory. It will end and moms are the best doctors.
Once again, Madelyn, you are very confused about vaccinations. You really need to learn the facts. There is absolutely no relationship between vaccines and autism. The scientific evidence is quite clear on that point. Also, you are the one who needs to check the CDC website. There, you will find the fact that doctors must give the VIS sheets to their patients, and those sheets have the web address where patients can find the ingredients list of the vaccines. I have already shown you how to find that.
You are also very confused about the Catholic Church and its response to those who try to get people to avoid vaccines with the lie that they contain fetal tissue. In fact, the entire Vatican statement can be found here. It says nothing about fetal DNA in vaccines. The statement mentions DNA twice, and neither time does it refer to fetal DNA. In addition the statement indicates that the Catholic Church encourages the use of the vaccines that are grown on self-perpetuating fetal cells. Here is what it says:
“Moreover, we find, in such a case, a proportional reason, in order to accept the use of these vaccines in the presence of the danger of favouring the spread of the pathological agent, due to the lack of vaccination of children. This is particularly true in the case of vaccination against German measles.”
No one can be confused by my title, since “doctor” is routinely used to refer to people with PhDs, and my blog is quite clear that I have a PhD in Nuclear Chemistry. I do, indeed, have an opinion on vaccination, but most importantly, I want people to know the actual facts about vaccination. That’s why I am trying hard to clear up your confusion on this matter.
Madelyn said to Dr. Wile: “You have no inside link to any information – all of the people commenting on this blog can get to the same information as you.”
This is exactly why I believe Dr. Wile, the scientist. Every fact he cites is backed up by evidence that I can verify myself. I like that.
The bigger issue is when authorities, be it government or doctors or scientists, tell us what we can and can’t do based on what they say is best for society. It is not hard to see that the tentacles of authority have reached far and wide since the founding of this country. Freedom is the real issue here, it is eroding especially for Christians. Creationists can surely relate to this, and as such I think their should be some sympathy, at least.
Regardless of how much information is made available the overall thrust is ‘just take the vaccines and shut up’. And if you don’t you are labeled as dangerous. And any doctors who don’t toe the line will have their reputation and career at stake. See the Expelled movie, same principle at work here. If there are doctors who have concerns only the bravest of the brave will talk. There is no real freedom to exchange ideas, as if there is no more to learn and no mistakes could be possible.
For instance, one of my concerns with vaccines are long term effects. And/or the cumulative effects of all the chemicals, GMOs, pollution, drugs, et al. Could any or all of them contribute to certain cancers? How about childhood syndromes and diseases which seem to have skyrocketed? Could vaccines play a part? There’s just not enough info to know, but i’m labeled as ‘misinformed’. Sorry, I’m not feeling the love. (btw we had whooping cough, not fun but made it). Here, these folks are brilliant but I’m a dangerous idiot for having the same concerns: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/exposome/
As a case study I fund the recent Measles ‘outbreak’ interesting. The anti-vaxers claim that there are other significant factors in the control of diseases, and the recent measles outbreak seems to lend credence to it. It seems to me that the outbreak has essentially been contained very quickly (only 159 cases this year) by means other than vaccination. lower vaccine rates have been blamed for it’s spread, and it seemed certain it would spread much more due to the current lower vaccination rates. But there hasn’t been enough time for a vaccine push to have any real effect in this outbreak, correct?. quarantine, education and sanitation improvements have therefore apparently been significant, if not the most significant factors in this containment. That’s another part of the campaign, which promotes the un-nuanced view that vaccines are the sole savior. Again the official line may be to acknowledge other factors, but in real life not so much.
And finally, as always, follow the $. vaccines are a cash cow. (And if they don’t make Pharma as much as I think (how do you know what info to believe?) they surely get folks accustomed to the idea that shooting stuff into yourself is no big deal) I’m not saying conspiracy, only that where there is a lot of money there is almost always corruption. It’s just human nature. #rootofevil
John, I agree that the government should not tell us how we should deal with our healthcare. At the same time, however, I don’t see any indication that “..any doctors who don’t toe the line will have their reputation and career at stake.” In fact, I see just the opposite. For example, the medical researchers who found a problem with the old rotavirus vaccine and caused it to be pulled from the market did not experience any negative consequences to their careers, despite the fact that they cost the pharmaceutical making the vaccine millions of dollars. In fact, those researchers were celebrated. Indeed, some of them are still doing research on vaccines, and their work is highly valued. In the same way, when Wakefield’s now-debunked study indicated that the MMR could be related to autism, lots and lots of studies were immediately done to see if Wakefield was right. Those studies showed he wasn’t. I think when legitimate concerns are expressed, the medical research community responds.
I would also disagree with your analysis of the current measles outbreak. We know that sanitation has played little or no factor in stopping the spread of measles. Quarantine certainly helps stop the spread, but we know vaccines do as well. For example, when measles outbreaks occur in schools, the vaccinated children are 22 times less likely to contract the disease than the unvaccinated children. That’s an effective means of stopping the disease!
Lots of people claim that vaccines are a cash cow. However, the data don’t really back that up. Sure, money is made on vaccines, but more money is made on other types of drugs. I understand your distrust of government and the drug companies. However, I think the independent medical research demonstrates that vaccines are safe and effective for the vast majority of the population.
Dr Wile
My 3 sons are finishing Exploring creation and have thoroughly enjoyed it, as has my wife while teaching them. Keep up the good work.
For back ground we have vaccinated all our children and our youngest is on schedule, although we are taking it slow.
A few thoughts on the discussion:
1) The point about Pharma not making as much money on vaccines is a non-point. The way big business works, a relatively stable, predictable income stream in the millions of dollars makes it easier to take risks in other areas that have higher profit margins. Especially if they can convince the government and media that everyone must take the shot, thereby increasing the predictability.
2) Madelyn above mentioned that she had a baby damaged by vaccines. A representative of the Medical/ Scientific community (that is how you are being viewed by many in this post whether you ARE or not) digitally laying a stack of reports under her nose and pointing out the data says “your motherly instincts and logic that only you observed in your one situation are meaningless, and you are a liar or a loon, here’s the evidence”. I doubt you will ever convince people like her because:
3) The refusal by many in the “Medical Industrial Complex” (to borrow an Eisenhower phrase now that the Federal Government is involved) to acknowledge a vested interest in the “selling” of the public on the “value” of their products makes people wary, if not down right hostile. Also, people who question this system are painted as loons.
I agree with you on most of the research, etc., but am with many others in being wary of everything said in reports produced by companies, universities and government agencies tied together in a vast, mostly unacknowledged web that make billions off of that research.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks for your thoughts, Tim. I would have to add these:
1) The point about Pharma making money on vaccines is also a non-point. Whether or not money is made says nothing about whether or not a treatment is beneficial. Lots of money is made on the “natural” alternatives to medicine as well. My point is that if profits were the only issue, vaccines would not be where I would invest my money. Other medicines make more money.
2) I never even implied that Madelyn is a “liar or a loon.” What I demonstrated is that she is very confused about vaccines, as most of the points she raised are demonstrably false.
3) The fact is that most of the independent researchers whose studies I quote have a vested interest in finding a problem with vaccines (or whatever treatment they are studying). That’s why studies routinely find problems with drugs.
Dr Wile thanks for the response and this is just to clear up any misunderstanding.
1)we agree on this one I think.
2) I may have said this a bit to strong. I meant that a mother who in her one instance is told again and again that the research says she is wrong hears “liar or loon” not that you said that. I agree she may be confused about the vaccines, as I am sometimes as well. That is one of the reasons I like to look at your blog for information like this and the discussion. But all the statistics in the work don’t mean that someones baby has never been injured by a vaccine.
3) We really agree on this one too for the most part, but with some exceptions that would be too complicated for here.
Have a good one.
All my life I’ve had a very healthy lifestyle. I never eat processed foods or other such foods that are toxic to the body. That’s the way it’s meant to be. What’s the difference? The difference is extraordinary! One of the effects this lifestyle has is that I hardly ever get sick. One time I got chicken pox (fortunately) and it went away in two weeks, and it wasn’t even that miserable. I can tell that I have a very good immune system. Many times I’ve gone places with a bunch of people around who had the flu or other diseases. Everybody else gets the disease, but I don’t. I believe that if more people ate healthier, exercised more, and overall lived healthier, vaccines wouldn’t be all that necessary. Since, however, that is not really the case, and America, for example, is already practically drowning in all kinds of junky, processed, and chemically toxic foods and products, why not have vaccines? Most of American’s immune systems are so low anyway due to unhealthy lifestyles, maybe they do need vaccines to help them survive diseases. As for me and my body, however, I’m not gonna need vaccines because I’m not gonna get a bad disease and I’m not gonna die from it. God gave me an immune system, and I’m going to make it as healthy as possible without vaccines.
Hi Evan,
Have you considered how life before the industrial revolution might fit in with your theory that healthy eating and exercise would keep people safe from infectious diseases? A couple of hundred years ago, people in America ate much healthier food than they do today, and because the vast majority of them had labor intensive jobs, they had plenty of exercise. Yet the death rate from infectious diseases was much larger than it is in America today. What are your thoughts on that?
Thanks for replying. Actually, while I’d agree with you that they ate healthier than us today, they were by no means very healthy. Sanitation was generally atrocious in those days! Looking at America today though, I’d say we are far past those days when it comes to the level of cleanliness. Today, however, instead of low sanitation, we have obesity epidemics! It is my opinion that we are still very susceptible to diseases today because we are not equipping ourselves with the effective immune systems we need to fight off unwanted diseases.
Ah, so what you are saying is that a healthy lifestyle plus good sanitation should be enough to help our immune system overcome infectious diseases. Got it. I still don’t think that that is quite right, and I’ll explain why, if I may. You seem to be suggesting that a healthy lifestyle and sanitation both boost the immune system, but if I am correct, good sanitation only helps to slow the spread of disease from one body to another. Only after it has reached the body will the immune system be able to fight it. From your first comment, it sounds like you are trusting your immune system to keep you relatively healthy even when sanitation fails to keep the disease out of your body, correct? If that is the case, why does it matter how good a person’s sanitation is, so long as they eat well and exercise?
Does that answer your question?
Just to clarify, sanitation (washing hands, frequent showers, clean food and water, etc.) helps keep pathogens and viruses from entering the body. Now, if such things do get in, our bodies have certain defense mechanisms that fight them off. These “defense mechanisms” in our bodies function efficiently if we commit to taking care of our entire body. That basically sums up what I’m saying.
You asked why sanitation matters if you eat well and exercise. Sanitation definitely matters. If you have poor hygiene all the time, you are constantly bombarding your immune system with harmful things your body doesn’t want, and that weakens it, making you more susceptible to sickness. Hygiene, eating natural foods, and exercising regularly and achieving optimal fitness all plays a significant role in maintaining a long, healthy life.
Yes, thanks for clarifying. Sorry for taking so long to get to the point, but it seems that you are saying that with a healthy lifestyle and good sanitation, that vaccines would never have a benefit because they are only compensating for an unhealthy immune system. Personally, I have come to the conclusion that vaccines give a large boost to the immune system as well as aiding in limiting the spread of disease, even with an already healthy immune system and good sanitation. I don’t have any of the data in front of me right now that indicates that, so that’s pretty much an empty statement. I just wanted to bring this up because it is the conclusion that I have come to after looking into the effects of vaccines more closely. Thanks for allowing me to give my view.
There’s no doubt immunity can be acquired through vaccinations, but the path I’ve chosen for myself is to continue as I am, protecting my body through natural means as I’ve explained. So that’s the conclusion I’ve come to, and I realize a lot of people may think I’m crazy for it. Thanks for sharing your view.
Dr. Wile,
Here is information regarding what is used in vaccinations. Since you’ve stated there isn’t aborted fetal tissue in them, I wanted to pass along some information to you.
.MRC-5, WI-38, DNA, MRC-5 Cellular Protein, Human Serum Albumin (all different ingredients)- All of these derive from either human tissue or human blood.
Human fetal lung strain MRC-5- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC274969/
MRC-5, 14 weeks gestation male caucasian fetus http://www.atcc.org/products/all/CCL-171.aspx
WI-38, 3 months gestation female caucasian fetus http://www.atcc.org/products/all/CCL-75.aspx
Aborted fetal cell line information: http://www.cogforlife.org/fetalvaccinetruth.htm
To date, there are two human diploid cell lines which were originally prepared from tissues of aborted foetuses and are used for the preparation of vaccines based on live attenuated virus: the first one is the WI-38 line with human diploid lung fibroblasts, coming from a female foetus that was aborted because the family felt they had too many children. The second human cell line is MRC-5 (Medical Research Council 5) (human, lung, embryonic) with human lung fibroblasts coming from a 14 week male foetus aborted for “psychiatric reasons” from a 27 year old woman in the UK.http://www.immunize.org/concerns/vaticandocument.htm
Fetal Bovine Serum/Calf Serum Protein- a product that is cruelly derived from the fetuses of cows found pregnant at slaughter. Serum is blood without any cells, platelets or clotting factors and fetal calf serum especially, is considered to be a rich source of nutrients.
It is harvested from bovine fetuses taken from pregnant cows during slaughter. FBS is commonly harvested by means of a cardiac puncture without any form of anaesthesia. Fetuses are probably exposed to pain and/or discomfort, so the current practice of fetal blood harvesting is inhumane. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11971757
Cow components are often used simply because cows are very large animals, commonly used for food, and thus much material is available. Animal-derived products used in vaccine manufacture can include amino acids, glycerol, detergents, gelatin, enzymes and blood. Cow milk is a source of amino acids, and sugars such as galactose. Cow tallow derivatives used in vaccine manufacture include glycerol. Gelatin and some amino acids come from cow bones. Cow skeletal muscle is used to prepare broths used in certain complex media. http://www.fda.gov/…/QuestionsaboutVaccines/ucm143521.htm
Some cows brought to slaughter are pregnant. After being slaughtered, their fetus – still alive – is extracted from the uterus by incision. A needle is then plunged deep into the heart, whose beats can draw blood without effort. This intracardiac puncture, deemed extremely painful and causes a slow death by asphyxiation. http://www.occupyforanimals.org/fetal-bovine-serum-or…
Exactly, Madelyn. Notice what your own information says. It says, “To date, there are two human diploid cell lines which were originally prepared from tissues of aborted foetuses and are used for the preparation of vaccines based on live attenuated virus…” This means cells from the tissue are used to grow the virus. Thus, tissue is not used in the preparation of vaccines. Only the self-perpetuating cells, as I have already stated. Also, the cells are used only to grow the virus. Thus, no fetal tissue is in the vaccines, and no cells are in the vaccine, either. This, of course, is why the vast majority of pro-life organizations, including the world’s largest, encourage parents to use those vaccines. You would have learned all this had you read the original article I gave you on the matter.
The problem with the vaccination/no-vaccination debate is the emotional extremism that occurs on both side. Like anything, how well any vaccination regime will work will depend on the wide range of reactions within the population being vaccinated.
There will be those for whom no reactions will be experienced when the vaccination is administered. There will be those who will have some minor reaction (of all sorts) and there will be those who will face life threatening reactions to the administration of the vaccination.
Just as the amount of protection one receives from a vaccination can be from no protection at all (in a small number of the population) to full immunity. What we have to understand is that at present we do not know if any specific individual will react badly or receive no protection.
This is an area of research that needs to be undertaken so that simple tests can be developed to gauge what should or should not be administered.
The other effect is to determine if the immunity can be boosted as one gets older. In some cases, additional booster shots will have no effect on the specific person because they may maintain full immunity from the original vaccination or the body may no longer gain any additional immunity and it just continues to decrease.
The basic decision to be made is a decision about risk – do you consider the risk of having a vaccination and having adverse effects to be much less than the risks of not having the vaccination and getting the resulting disease at some later time.
For example, many people who have the tetanus vaccination experience pain from moderate to severe in the location of the injection. Yet, I have never experience any pain whatsoever when receiving a tetanus injection.
I also know of a gentleman who “religiously” gets his flu shots every year and up until a specific change made by him and his doctor in the administration protocol, would get very sick immediately afterwards. In his case, he stills get his flu shots every year but he gets it over a period of weeks with each dosage being 1/3 of the full dose. He has not got sick since the protocol change.
Many of those who argue for compulsory vaccination (no choice to be allowed) argue a false premise that non-vaccinated children are a danger to vaccinated children. If you are vaccinated, you are vaccinated. If in fact, a non-vaccinated child is a danger to vaccinated children then the vaccination is useless.
Many of those who argue for non-vaccination argue from a position of fear and not knowledge. This is just as problematic. If you decide not to vaccinate then do so from a reasoned position.
I am of the belief that some vaccinations are very useful and that others are useless. Personally, I discuss these matters with my doctor who is a disciple of Jesus Christ just as I am. I have had a variety of vaccinations over the years, but I also refrain from specific vaccinations as I consider them useless for myself. They may be useful for part of the population but I consider their promulgation as being motivated by money or control not public health.
In every medical protocol, there is a measure of risk. It is up to you as an individual to determine if the benefits far outweigh the problems or if the problems far outweigh the benefits. If you are a disciple of Jesus Christ then you have the additional facility of asking Him for advice as well.
Bruce, I don’t argue for compulsory vaccinations. Medical decisions are best made between people and their physicians. However, I do disagree with your idea that unvaccinated people are not a threat to vaccinated people. We know that they can be. For example, in April of 2013, an unvaccinated person returned home to North Carolina after spending three months in India. Along with souvenirs and stories, the traveler brought home the measles virus. Two other unvaccinated family members got the disease, and in the end, there were 23 confirmed cases of the measles. The vast majority of them (18) were among unvaccinated people. Two of the measles cases were in people of unknown vaccination status, and three were in people who were fully vaccinated. This is not an isolated incident.
As is the case with all medicines, vaccines are not 100% effective. Some vaccinated people will still get the disease. As the case above indicates, the unvaccinated people are significantly more likely to get the disease, but some vaccinated people will get the disease. Thus, unvaccinated people do pose a risk to vaccinated people. That’s not a good reason for mandatory vaccines, because as you say, vaccines aren’t for everyone. Nevertheless, unvaccinated people do facilitate the spread of disease, and it will spread to some vaccinated people. For example, we know that schools in which measles outbreaks occur have 2.9 times as many unvaccinated students and those that don’t experience measles outbreaks.
Dr Wile,
You make my point with the measles example. It is not my idea that that unvaccinated people are not a threat to vaccinated people. This is the “medical propaganda” that goes with the idea of vaccinations. “If you are vaccinated you are protected”.
Please reread my response to the debate. The summary is that we do not know enough about vaccinations to determine the actual effectiveness of them due to the simple fact that every person will have a different response to having a vaccination. We have a probability profile for a specific vaccination’s effectiveness, but how accurate this is actually unknown. We are told to trust the scientists and unfortunately, it has been shown that scientists are no different from anyone else and are subject to greed and manipulation.
As your example shows, some were not protected at all by having the vaccination. What we don’t know is how many people had a natural immunity to the specific disease nor do we know how many have had a adverse reaction to the specific vaccination.
In your response, you highlighted that non-vaccinated people facilitate the spread of the disease. What you haven’t highlighted in this example is that vaccinated people also facilitate the spread of the disease.
In our country, the government has effectively made vaccinations compulsory (even if not done so within the law). What is missing from the debate is a reasoned discussion and research and development in finding a set of simple processes to determine the effectiveness of a vaccine on an individual basis.
Based on a variety of sources, the direction of disease research and development appears to be heading in one of three directions. The first is developing effective treatments for all people. The second is developing treatments that can be used to make large amounts of money (the majority). The third is to weaponise diseases for military purposes (unknown extent).
In the end, it is up to you to educate yourself about the specific disease and the effectiveness and side-effects of a vaccination before making an informed decision about whether or not to be vaccinated.
This was a sad case that could have been much worse. I hope her example will wake up many more anti-vaxers to their well-meaning but child-endangering folly.
While anti-vaxism used to be the province of limousine liberals in Beverly Hills (see Are Liberals or Conservatives More Anti-Vaccine?), it does seem to be infiltrating the conservative homeschooling community. I do what I can to convince conservatives and Christians that vaccination is safe and disease-preventing, making extensive use of the well-documented articles on this site.